StanAgol

CHAT SESSION PART I ...5-24-99 Stan Agol Is Our Guest...

Jzero1> May 24th 1999...Today in music history four events took place.
1...Elmore James, the great Chicago bluesman, and considered by many to be the king of the slide guitar, passed away at the age of 45.
2...On this date the great Duke Ellington, arguably the single-most creative talent in the annals of American Music History also passed away.He was the epitome of style and class.
3...Tommy Chong of "Cheech and Chong" was born May 24th 1938. He is 61 years old today. Happy birthday man!
4...Bob Dylan was also born on this date in 1941.We wish Bob the very best on this his 58th birthday.
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My name is Jack ( Jzero), and I'll be your host/moderator tonight.I'd like to thank you all for joining the forum, and for stopping by this evening.I think we're in for a good time with Stan Agol, the recording engineer for three of Tim Buckley's albums..."Starsailor", "Greetings From L.A.",and "Look At The Fool"
..Jzero1> Good evening Stan...Thanks for consenting to this interview, and for allowing us to ask questions about the great Tim Buckley sessions that you recorded.
.Jzero1> And, hello again Bob...I hope this interview helps you to uncover some of the facts that you're looking for, in your pursuit of an accurate account of Tim's life.
.Jzero1> For those of you who do not know yet, Bob Niemi is an author who is working diligently on a biography of Tim Buckley.
.Jzero1> I'LL BE ASKING THE QUESTIONS TONIGHT FOR BOB AND MYSELF...SHALL WE BEGIN?...OKAY STAN, HERE WE GO.
STANAGOL> ok lets go
.Jzero1> How many years have you been in the music business and how many years as a recording engineer?
STANAGOL> 37 years
.Jzero1> Roughly, how many different Record Labels have you worked for?
STANAGOL> Elektra, M.G.M
.Jzero1> Who was the first big name entertainer that you worked with?
STANAGOL> Dizzy Gillespie, around 1967, it was the last Bell Telephone Hour, filmed live at the Jazz Workshop in S.F, I also recorded Charles Lloyd at Reed College for the same show.
.Jzero1> Can you possibly recall how many big names you worked with and which were some of the most exciting?
STANAGOL> Bing Crosby, Dizzy, Frank Zappa, Robert Goulet, Diana Ross, Jackson 5, Sly Stone, Al Jarreau, Sammy Davis Jr., Eric Burdon, Jimmy Witherspoon, mixed a lot of Woodstock I, Harry Chapin, Little Feat,Mickey Newbury, Judy Collins, The James Gang, Todd Rundgren, Don Costa, Buddy Greco, The Osmonds, The Silvers, Steve and Edie, The Boones, CSNY, Blue Cheer, CCR, Steve Miller, Dan Hicks, Cal Tjader,John Handy, Sir Douglas Quintet, Gene Clark, Ronne Blakley, Ry Cooder, The Charlatans, Robby Krieger, T-bone Burnett...
.Jzero1> How did you wind up working with Tim Buckley?
STANAGOL> I had just finished Chunga's Revenge with Zappa
.Jzero1> What's the difference between a "Producer" and a "Recording Engineer"
STANAGOL> The engineer is responsible for the technology involved in the recording. The producer, if one is present, is responsible for the overall direction. A record producer would equate to a film director and the engineer to the cameraman. Sometimes a producer is not present and some of those duties fall on the engineer.
.Jzero1> Which of the three albums ("Starsailor", Greetings From L.A.", or "Look At The Fool") was your favorite session? .....Which of the 3 turned out to be your favorite finished product?
STANAGOL> STARSAILOR was the most fun. LOOK AT THE FOOL the best sound.
.Jzero1> What was a typical session day like?
STANAGOL> Well they were mostly nights. None of them were typical. Union sessions with charts were straight ahead, 4 songs in three hours, very professional. STARSAILOR was not like that, a lot of what we did was experiment which eats up the time.
.Jzero1> When did everyone arrive?
STANAGOL> When the session started or thereabouts.
.Jzero1> How long did they work?
STANAGOL> Sessions could be from 4 hours to 24 hours.
.Jzero1> How long did it take to finish a song?
STANAGOL> An hour to a week.
.Jzero1> Did Tim assume a leadership role in the studio?
STANAGOL> During STARSAILOR he did. Less during GREETINGS and FOOL.
.Jzero1> Were things chaotic or organized?
STANAGOL> YES!
.Jzero1> What was the social atmosphere like?
STANAGOL> Very creative, relaxed.
.Jzero1> Did everyone get along?
STANAGOL> Mostly.
.Jzero1> Were you at any of the rehearsals?
STANAGOL> The only rehersals of Tim's I attended were between STARSAILOR and GREETINGS, when Chapman was with him.
.Jzero1> Was it all business during the actual recording sessions?
STANAGOL> No. FOOL was probably the most business like, the studio musicians were 1st string, they were used to doing a lot of charted sessions, film scores, etc.
.Jzero1> Were there many bystanders/groupies at these sessions?
STANAGOL> No groupies. Friends drop by, record company people sometimes.
.Jzero1> Did Tim's wife, Judy, attend?
STANAGOL> I don't think she was at STARSAILOR, some at GREETINGS, more at FOOL.
.Jzero1> Did Larry Beckett attend any of the sessions or was he around at all?
STANAGOL> No. I never met Larry at any of the three...
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PART II...STAN AGOL CHAT SESSION...5-24-99
Jzero1> .....NOW FOR SOME "STARSAILOR" QUESTIONS.....

.Jzero1> Before the recording of "Starsailor",the song, what did you think of the concept?
STANAGOL> Maybe more Avant Gauche than Avant Garde.
.Jzero1> How did Tim explain to you what he wanted the song to sound like when it was finally mixed?...or... Did you guys just wing it?
STANAGOL> I couldn't possibly remember that. A lot of the effects like flange phasing and backwards vocals were my ideas. He was not specific abouts FX.
However, I just ran across the following notes this past Saturday and I'll share them with you...
COMPOSER'S NOTES... Harmonic Structure: a set of horizontal vocal lines is improvised in at least three ranges, the vertical effect of which is atonal tone clusters and a rhythmic counterpoint.
Performance: The written melody is to be sung, after which the lines of lyric are to be re-ordered at will and sung to improvised melody, taking advantage of the opportunity for quartertones, third note lengths, and flexible tempo.
.Jzero1> What did you tell me the other day about playing "Starsailor", the song, backwards?
STANAGOL> You can hear the backwards parts. PALINDROMORPHIC MUSIC.
.Jzero1> Did the musicians use sheet music?
STANAGOL> Sheet No.
.Jzero1> Did Lee Underwood have a lot of imput?
STANAGOL> Yes, it was basically Tim and Lee and John.
.Jzero1> The writers of "Starsailor", the song, were Tim Buckley, Larry Beckett, and John Balkin...how much of that song was actually John's?
STANAGOL> I have no idea.
.Jzero1> Were Tim, Larry, John, and Lee all satisfied with the final mix of "Starsailor", the song, or did they have differences about how it should sound?
STANAGOL> Well I don't think Larry was there. I don't recall any disagreements.
.Jzero1> On "Song To The Siren", who played the electric guitar?
STANAGOL> Lee, I think.
.Jzero1> Was that Tim's voice in the background at all times on "Song To The Siren"?
STANAGOL> Yes, I think we used all 16 tracks for vocals, a lot of backwards vocals, no instruments.
.Jzero1> Could you explain what "phasing" is?
STANAGOL> That's when you take a signal and duplicate it and vary the speed of one of the signals slightly then you get phasing. Originaly named "flange phasing" because to vary the speed of one of the signals you would put your thumb on the flange of the tape reel.
.Jzero1> Did Tim hang out in the control room with you for playbacks?
STANAGOL> Yes
.Jzero1> Did you spend any time at all with Tim outside the studio?
STANAGOL> Not a lot. The rehearsals mentioned above, and at the Boarding House in 1972 right before GREETINGS.
.Jzero1> On which album did you first work with Joe Falsia?
STANAGOL> Joe and I met at FAR Out Productions, basically Eric Burdon's company run by Jerry Goldstein and Steve Gold. I was a staff engineer and Joe was staff guitar player and arranger. We first worked together with a group called FATHA. They were to be WAR's replacement as contracts were broken.
.Jzero1> How different was Joe Falsia from Lee?
STANAGOL> Totally different... Joe was a studio player from NY, basically R&B oriented, and an arranger (the strings on SWEET SURRENDER, the horns on FOOL). Lee was more of an artiste.
.Jzero1> Were Joe and Tim good friends?
STANAGOL> They had a relationship I had no part of: the road. I would say they were good friends.
.Jzero1> Do you know how they met?
STANAGOL> They met on GREETINGS.
.Jzero1> Did you consider Joe a good producer or did you have to help him a lot?
.STANAGOL>I had to help him when he was playing guitar solos, he couldn't play and produce at the same time. I had more input on FOOL than GREETINGS.
.Jzero1> I understand that you were very unhappy with the outcome of "Greetings"?
STANAGOL> I feel that the basic groove was better without the sax, organ, handclaps, etc. overdubs.
.Jzero1> What was it like to work with Jerry Goldstein the producer of "Greetings"? STANAGOL> I've worked with producers I've liked better.
.Jzero1> Where was "Look At The Fool" recorded?
STANAGOL> Wally Heider's studio three, the Record Plant studio B. Mixed at Heider's studio 3 after remodeling. Mastered at Warner Bros Amiga studios.
.Jzero1> Were there any studio incidents that were funny or worth telling about?
STANAGOL> The album was originally titled TIJUANA MOON (note the cover). All three albums had a last-minute-addition-for-time song. STARSAILOR it was MOULIN ROUGE. GREETINGS it was HONG KONG BAR. FOOL it was WANDA LU (which Warners and Discreet picked for the single).
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PART III...STAN AGOL CHAT SESSION...5-24-99
.Jzero1> How did you view Tim, as:
.Jzero1> A personality?
STANAGOL> Friend.
.Jzero1> As a musician?
STANAGOL> Incredible vocalist. A better singer than guitar player. 12 strings are very difficult to keep in tune. There is none of Tim's guitar on FOOL
.Jzero1> As a writer?
STANAGOL> I don't know which lyrics he wrote and which lyrics Larry wrote. I admire the use of analogies, metaphors, and similies. I write lyrics and they always end up structured and rhyming.
.Jzero1> As a singer?
STANAGOL> His pitch was awesome, his range was awesome (3 1/2 octaves not 5+ as reported elsewhere.
.Jzero1> .....NOW FOR SOME VERY PERSONAL QUESTIONS, BUT IMPORTANT QUESTIONS NONETHELESS...
.Jzero1> When was the last time that you saw Tim alive?
STANAGOL> At the completion of LOOK AT THE FOOL.
.Jzero1> You were there at the end of Tim's recording career. Is it true that Tim felt the need to carry a gun? Was anyone looking to hurt him that you know of?
STANAGOL> I never heard about Tim carrying a gun.
.Jzero1> Any anecdotes that you would like to share with us, before we open up the floor to questions from the other people in the room?
STANAGOL> No, not in public anyway.
.Jzero1> What about that paramount session you told me about?
STANAGOL> The ones with Chapman?
.Jzero1> Yeah, that session.
STANAGOL> Timmy on 12 string, Maury Baker on his custom tympani/trap drum set, Emmett Chapman on "Stick" ("Schtick" as Timmy put it), Glen Faris on trombone. John Balkin was not at the studio, I don't remember the rehearsals
.Jzero1> Was Tim a funny guy?
STANAGOL> Yeah, he was intellegent, so was his humor.
.Jzero1> Did he like to stretch the truth at times?
STANAGOL> He just liked STRETCH marks
.Jzero1> Why did he abandon the acoustic guitar?
STANAGOL> I didn't know that he did. At least not before he died.
STANAGOL> He didn't play guitar on FOOL.
LORCA> How many takes did Tim typically do to get a song down the way he wanted it?
STANAGOL> "Who Could Deny You" was done in one take the first time, at the start of the session. Others took several takes maybe with some punch-ins.
.Jzero1> Why didn't Tim play guitar on "Look At The Fool"?
STANAGOL> His guitar playing was not as good as his singing. He played on the live takes, but we just didn't use it in the final mix. I mentioned above the tuning problems with 12 strings.
.Jzero1> I remember at the live concerts that I attended,it did take him a long time to tune, but to me it was worth it. The 12 string acoustic guitar is my favorite instrument.
LORCA> Was there much overdubbing on LATF? BTW, Hi Stan.
STANAGOL> It's sort of a paradox. He had perfect pitch, I think, and his vocals were always so in tune. The problem with the guitar is just inherent with 12 strings.
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PART IV...STAN AGOL CHAT SESSION ...5-24-99
.JimG> How was Tim's state of mind during LATF? Some writers characterize him as "down" and "desperate.
STANAGOL> No, that's bullshit. His career was looking up. He was going to play Woody Guthrie in "Bound For Glory". He was leaving Herb Cohen and signing a big deal with Screen Gems. He was NOT a junkie!
.JimG> About the Paramount sessions. How much material was recorded?
STANAGOL> Only one or two songs.
.Jzero1> How disappointed was Herb Cohen over the material on "Starsailor",the album?
STANAGOL> It was not the material, it was the album in general. Well it was almost two years before he recorded again.
.JimG> Did Tim require many vocal punch-ins on "Song to the Siren?" The emotional continuity of his performance is awesome.
STANAGOL> No, I don't think there were a lot of punch-ins. Remember there are 16 vocals, some backwards.
.Jzero1> Herb Cohen took the credit as executive producer of "Starsailor"...did he do anything at all?
STANAGOL> Not in the studio, he was Never there.
.Jzero1> What was Herb's role back then?
STANAGOL> "Executive Producer" is a suit that sets up financing etc.
.Jzero1> Okay.
.JimG> How did Tim get along with his various producers? Were there conflicts?
STANAGOL> I only saw Herb a few times, and then he was usually complaining about something.
STANAGOL> I think Tim thought Jerry Goldstein was a Yo-Yo. He got along good with Joe.
.Jzero1> You said that you recorded some stuff of your own on the computer. What did you record?
STANAGOL> Some lyrics I wrote.
.Jzero1> On what subject?
STANAGOL> Meaningful subjects like child abuse, endangered species, etc.
.Jzero1> Tell us your theory on why Tim left this earth...if it's not too personal?
STANAGOL> Singers like Tim are angels, they get to leave when their work is done.
LORCA> How did you find out he had died?
STANAGOL> I called Joe at home to find out how the movie deal was going., This was the next day after he died.
.Jzero1> The deal was close to being made?
LORCA> What were your thoughts then?
STANAGOL> That's what I was calling to find out, it was looking very good!
LORCA> Were there any other contenders for the role?
STANAGOL> David Carradine got the part. He sucked as Woody Guthrie. Tim looked a lot like Woody.
.Jzero1> Did Tim do a screen test for the movie?
STANAGOL> I'm not sure, I think so. That would be hot to get a copy of.
.JimG> Any general comments about Tim's professionalism?
STANAGOL> Yes, he was very professional in the studio.
.Jzero1> Well I guess we should call it a night. ...Thank you Stan, it was very nice of you to answer so many questions.
LORCA> Yes, thanks Stan.
.Jzero1> Goodnight all
CELTICRAY> Good evening.
.JimG> Thanks Stan and bye all!
STANAGOL> Jack, I cut a zip disk with mp3's. I'll mail it tomorrow. It includes STARSAILOR2000, THE PALINDROMORPHIC REMIX.
.Jzero1> Terrific...Thanx
LORCA> Adios...
.Jzero1> Thanks Bob
STANAGOL> GOOD NIGHT ALL